It's true that most of the students end up in primary care/internal medicine, however there are also a fair amount that get into anesthesiology, surgery etc. Will Attending Medical School In The Caribbean Hurt My Chances Of Becoming A U.S. Myth # 4: Caribbean medical schools will take your money and abandon you Medical school is an undeniably large investment, regardless of institution. Instead, it is based on approvals and accreditations. Ridiculous. Finally, the merging of residencies and increased enrollment of MD/DO schools will ultimately squeeze more and more IMGs out of the match. Not a day goes by I don’t wake up wishing I was dumb – that way at least I would deserve being demoted to primary care." Graduating from any of these medical schools will allow you to practice medicine, perform surgery and prescribe drugs in all 50 states in the U.S. For Caribbean schools, it is a little bit different. And like I've mentioned with my friend above, there have been students here landing prestigious residencys. Caribbean medical schools vary widely in their attrition rates and accreditation, experts say. Most Caribbean medical schools are not included in this analysis, and you should investigate these options separately. The Cayman Islands have St. Matthew's medical school that has an impressive 31.8% match rate. But what about students experiences? But remember, these are the match rates of those that actually applied to the match. Check out our Caribbean Medical School page for more information. I was on an internal medicine rotation at a county hospital in our city, and this resident told me that he went to a "top 10" under grad program, didn't mention the name, and that he had multiple MD and DO acceptances but chose to go to the carribean because "Adventure." Medical schools in the Caribbean are largely for-profit schools. Medical schools in the Caribbean have historically provided an alternative path to students with lower stats who might have otherwise given up on their dreams of practicing medicine. Matching into a residency program is one of the biggest hurdles that medical students have to overcome, and it will dictate what type of medical specialty they will pursue. Yeah, something is off about it. Except that 29% of them find residency OUTSIDE of the match (as reported by them). Because they cannot get into a US MD. Well this is where it gets interesting. Many of these students are highly qualified and competitive, but there aren’t enough seats for everyone. in the first sentence he goes "as a budding activist it makes sense to be a physician", but then talks about how he wants the big money and job security of a doctor. AUC had a similar match for its graduates at 91% in 2019. matriculated into an allopathic medical school. Look at some of the more recent posts. Here are how IMGs are fairing getting interviews. Here are just a few examples of students who graduated from a Caribbean medical school and have matched into a competitive residency: In the U.S., 143 allopathic medical colleges are accredited by the Liaison Committee of Medical Education and 38 osteopathic medical colleges are accredited by the American Osteopathic Association Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation. matched into a program. That is such a massive discrepancy. Stanford has a higher acceptance rate than the ten most competitive medical schools, which accepted an average of 2.5% of all applicants. Non-traditional medical students can be some of the best candidates for American and Caribbean medical schools, yet they face unique challenges, particularly for older students when it comes to getting a residency. Still not convinced? This will be added to the FAQ and sidebar soon once I get the kinks worked out. The Award targets prospective students, who have demonstrated excellent academic achievement prior to the acceptance to Caribbean Medical University School of Medicine or attained strong scores on the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT). Stanford has a higher acceptance rate than the ten most competitive medical schools, which accepted an average of. The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of Caribbean Medical Schools Going to Caribbean medical schools is usually a source of some conflict with prospective medical students. The Caribbean schools are unofficially ranked into three tiers (top, mid and bottom). Medical University of the Americas (MUA) Accredited by the ACCM, the Medical University of the Americas is considered one of the top medical schools in the Caribbean. A behind-the-scenes look at Caribbean medical schools. Every year, thousands of students dream of getting into medical school. Overall, six years after matriculating, the average attrition rate for allopathic U.S. medical schools was 4.1%, meaning roughly 96% of matriculating medical students graduated. In 2020, the majority of graduates from. If you screwed up in school in undergrad, take advantage of the experience and try to use it to learn that humans are not above one another. My buddy graduated from a Caribbean med school, and is now a radiologist who just got job offers from Duke and Stanford. Someone with a Step 1 in the 250s is applying family medicine from a Carib top 4 and only received 5 interviews. The medical schools of Saint Kitts and Nevis have a match rate of 45%. Imagine that. Actually yes, they are legit as in you get an MD that you may practice in the US with. My doctor back in the US is from the caribbean and she did her residency at Yale. We also had a student do well here their first year and apply to med schools in the states and got accepted into a US med school as a transfer. If they are unable to secure a spot, they will have to wait and reapply the following year. saying they seldom or never interview international medical graduates who are U.S. citizens. . 3. A separate application is not required. I am an independent college counselor and the founder and CEO of Moon Prep. DOs have a 99% placement rate between ACGME and AOA residencies. As we’ll The mandatory lectures are nearly pathetic. I don't support Carib schools, but even I feel that his viewpoint is warped by his ego and bitterness. If anyone has any concrete evidence, numbers, etc please let me know. Take a hard look at what happened in your life that you weren't able to make it into a US/Canadian med school, FIX IT and come down here with an attitude of working your ass off and you can make your dream of being a doctor happen. Learn about USMLE pass rates, accreditation, match rates, & more! In his opinion, 93 percent or higher is exceptional. The Big Four tend to have a lower attrition rate than other Caribbean schools, but it is often still higher than U.S. medical schools. Grades, intellectual ability, athletic ability, whatever. Here's my disclaimer so don't bring it up. It's BAD. “All medical schools would like to brag that 100 percent of its students matched, but that is not an easy accomplishment,” Lee says. Its just that they cannot afford better university education. Now the way becoming a "working" physician in the US works is you apply once a year during September, interview for a couple months, then find out whether or not you got any job the following March. The match system is extremely complex, with both the hospitals and the applicants ranking each other in order of desirability. Are they legit MDs? yeah reading that thing was trash. I'm already aware. You should do a full AMA thread if youre legit. But before committing to four years of education, students must do their research first to understand the outcomes of their decision. In 2013 SGU had around a 66% match rate for US-IMGs. Some programs are more selective about whom they will interview, with 68% of programs saying they seldom or never interview international medical graduates who are U.S. citizens. Any comments or questions please post below! That quote is so hilariously entitled lmao. I don't know about you but my end goal in medical school isn't JUST matching, it's matching into a program I actually at least kind of want to be at. About the Ads Our History How We Moderate Vision, Values and Policies Support for Black Lives Matter For the students who don’t match, they must try to match again after the initial process has ended. This number has been relatively consistent in recent years. Typically, these four Caribbean medical schools, known as “The Big Four,” have a reputation for being the best option for students who will ultimately return to the U.S. for their residency: For some students, Caribbean medical schools offer a “second chance” to matriculate into a medical school. Doctor? In case you didn't know, you can match OUTSIDE of the match at unfilled programs. Lol yeah I read this blog. 2. Pre-medical students might be considering Caribbean medical schools as a way to become a U.S. doctor. There are currently 60 Caribbean medical schools that you can attend, as … are accredited by the American Osteopathic Association Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation. I write about the strategy leading to successful college admissions. I'm 29 y/o, recently graduated from medical school 2 years ago with $450,000 in student loans from both undergrad college and med school. Discover if this path to medicine is a good option. Medical schools in the Caribbean not only offer quality medical education, advanced clinical training, reduced tuition fees, higher acceptance rates. Here is a famous blog by a Caribbean student. The Big Four and a few other Caribbean medical schools are approved to practice in California, but the list is limited. So if you had 950 extrapolated over 4 years you'd have 3,800 students but there's 5,200 overall students in a 4 YEAR PROGRAM. I kind of find it hard to believe that no USMD and only 2 DO schools offered him interviews if he was really as good as he said (especially over something like a name). In 2019, the Match Day—when the National Resident Matching Program (NRMP) releases the decisions—was the biggest ever. The road to becoming a doctor is long, expensive, and arduous, and the choice of a medical school to get you there should be meticulously researched and planned. By He wanted to do surgery and had "multiple interviews" but decided he liked family medicine better. According to SGU—the second largest source of physicians in the U.S.—, While students from the Big Four are matching into U.S. residency programs, it is important to look at what type of programs they are matching into. I am an independent college counselor and the founder and CEO of Moon Prep. You have probably heard about some countries offering free college education, and you are wondering whether it is true. That means roughly 60% of the students were rejected. It's widely known that a lot of what makes a Carib school really hard is they have insane checkpoints you must hit to even sit for USMLE or other benchmarks. This number has been relatively consistent in recent years. In medical school, the attrition rate is calculated by looking at how many students drop out of a program. US Seniors matching had a 50% match rate INTO THEIR FIRST CHOICE. Starting in the fourth year, medical students send applications to hospitals that train in that particular specialty and interview for the position. While students from the Big Four are matching into U.S. residency programs, it is important to look at what type of programs they are matching into. (NRMP) releases the decisions—was the biggest ever. And that's of the students that are STILL there. Please read more here. If you are considering an international medical school, one of the first things you should look at is the attrition rate. Don't let the ego's of some of the mainland medical student's get to you - that's an embarrassing way to approach the world, and aside from the basic sciences (which you take in the Caribbean) you'll be taking the same STEP 1 & 2 as them, same clinical rotations in the hospitals for years 3 and 4 and the same licensing board exams. and etc. It's dramatic and he's a pretentious douchebag but it's worth a read, This is another blog titled "Why SGU may not be for you", Here's a discussion in r/medicalschool about going Caribbean. The ranking has nothing to do with the quality of education you’ll receive or the likelihood you’ll match at a good institution. Let's start at the beginning and progress. And this is SGU , one of, if not the "top" carib MD program. When you’re choosing which school to go to, you need to pay attention to USMLE pass rates, residency match rates, and attrition rates to get a good idea of what the Good luck to all that read this and still pursue it-- may you actually make it out. And remember... these students have most likely been taking out hundreds of thousands worth of loans. That's SIGNIFICANTLY more than the 952 that entered. All I can do is say my piece and let those that want to risk it to go. I would estimate SGU has around a 40-50% match rate and a 55-66% overall residency placement from students who start to students who actually end up in residency. The guy by his own admission is at an upper-mid tier university program. My focus is to help students create an application that sets them apart from the pack, conveys what they have to offer the college, and why they are a great fit. I am not going to comment on the actual medical education one may receive. Press J to jump to the feed. I'm a student down in the Caribbean at the moment. Saba has a match rate of 58% among US-IMGs. Someone with a Step 1 in the 250s is applying family medicine from a Carib top 4 and only received 5 interviews. It's like that for a reason. Applied gen surg and didn't match? More on this later. Carib MD's have very high attrition rates. honestly I think he was just a shitty person and did not know how to write essays. However, the 952 entering students can't be a part of the students being held back just yet, so years 2-4 you have an average of 1,400 students per class. I'll compare DO versus Carib MD later. Well that's a huge discrepancy... For whatever reason, there are a lot more "4 year MD students" in the program than those that start. Remember, if you're in the 30-50% who don't match, you're looking at crushing debt and an inability to practice as a physician. Here's a discussion in r/medicalschool about going Caribbean. (Graduate of SGU, MD ‘19): Current internal medicine resident at St. John's Riverside Hospital in New York (2019-2020) and anesthesiology resident at Brown University (starting summer 2020), (Graduate of SGU, MD ‘19): Emergency medicine resident at Saint Louis University School of Medicine, (Graduate of SGU, MD ‘19): Pathology resident at the University of Chicago, are accredited by the Liaison Committee of Medical Education and. Edit: lol okay I can settle for that link title. Here is a famous blog by a Caribbean student. As these rejected students weigh their options, they might wonder about medical schools outside of the U.S, specifically in the Caribbean. According to NRMP, in 2019 U.S. allopathic seniors filled more than 90% of the spots in the following specialties: However, for students who want to pursue a different specialty, like internal or family medicine, a Caribbean medical school might be a good option. etc. Now she's finishing up a GI fellowship and a top program and getting starting offers for like 400-500k. r/premed (and honestly the entire premed population ranging from SDN to people still using hotmail and DSL internet) has needed a resource for many years that shows what going to a for-profit medical school in the Caribbean is really like. So out of 952 students, on average 350 of them are taking at least 1 extra year to get through the program. Let's get some perspective. Of them, the average GPA and MCAT is around a 3.2-3.4 and a 24-27. There couldn't be a worse time to go to the Caribbean for medical school. The NRMP doesn’t break the data down by specific country, but for all international medical school graduates, 59% matched into first-year positions (PGY-1). For example, California keeps a list of foreign medical schools that have been approved by the Medical Board of California. Ok I used a lot of numbers here. They sure do! One of the most popular vacation destinations in the world. By Ilana Kowarski , Reporter Jan. 13, 2020 By Ilana Kowarski , Reporter Jan. 13, 2020, at 8:39 a.m. Graduating from any of these medical schools will allow you to practice medicine, perform surgery and prescribe drugs in all 50 states in the U.S. People who go to these universities are not dumb! "Oh woe is me, I'm a brilliant mind trapped in a lousy residency with these other loser residents". Well that's odd, it states their starting class is in Fall 2016 is 952 which includes BOTH start dates as in 2009 each class started with around 430 students with the number increasing. Ross has a match rate of 54% among US-IMGs. St. George's is considered one of the top Carib MDs, how do they perform and match?  Some schools include a list of affiliated hospitals for their clinical rotations part of the program, however, many of these hospitals are not ACGME certified, many clinical rotations that are completed at hospitals that are not ACGME certified will not be considered as completion of rotation. When put together though, does the Caribbean make medical school a vacation? ACTUAL quote from his blog: "It sucks being smart. They also have high graduation success rates, in addition, allow you to pursue a The only Caribbean medical school you should consider should be top-tier and have an accreditation recognized by the World Federation for Medical Education/Foundation for Advancement of International Medical Education and Research (WFME/FAIMER). For example, Ross University reported that in July of 2017, 20% of the students who started in 2013 were no longer students at the university, 46% had graduated and 34% were still enrolled in the school. He obviously doesn't learn as his arrogance continues into medical school and beyond. This guy is still just as full of himself as he was the day he applied to med school and turned down his DO acceptance. Two separate statements. Moreover, this post will focus on attrition rates, match rates, debt, and eventually where graduates may end up. I know my analysis is not perfect by any means, but the purpose of it is so show how frustratingly difficult it is to get any actual answers from these programs. Caribbean medical school discussion forum. It doesn't matter if you're a doctor or an electrician or a housewife raising kids, everyone has something valuable and important to contribute. There are 1,400 students unaccounted for. We lose a LOT of students down here because the requirements are lower to get into the Caribbean school, but it is just as difficult as a US med school. The NRMP doesn’t break the data down by specific country, but for all international medical school graduates, matched into first-year positions (PGY-1). Read up on what a claimed 99% match rate means for Ross University. He's probably lying about the upper-mid tier university program. Ok so we have 952 entering students, but an average class size of 1300... Ok then. For Caribbean medical school graduates, it can be challenging to get matched into some of the most competitive specialties. Medical school scholarships can help you significantly cut down on your student loan debt. 10 Design Principles, Happy? , in 2019 U.S. allopathic seniors filled more than 90% of the spots in the following specialties: However, for students who want to pursue a different specialty, like internal or family medicine, a Caribbean medical school might be a good option. Dr. Tommy Martin is a graduate of St George's University (SGU) in the Caribbean and currently a med-peds resident physician training in Arkansas. Here is Gonnif's advice from SDN. For example, Ross University reported that in July of 2017. who started in 2013 were no longer students at the university, 46% had graduated and 34% were still enrolled in the school. I have no opinion about these schools, only the ones made for US students to come back to the US. I will try to be unbiased but quick disclaimer: I am NOT a fan of these for-profit schools and so my post will inevitably be anti-Carib MD. Other programs have way lower match/placement rates. Caribbean students are very smart! The Big Four and a few other Caribbean medical schools are approved to practice in California, but the list is limited. What is a for profit Caribbean school? If they are unable to secure a spot, they will have to wait and reapply the following year. Even the worst U.S. medical schools have acceptance rates under 20%. That's not even considering the students that drop out or are dismissed before graduating. Reddit's home for wholesome discussion related to pre-medical studies. All this talk of Caribbean Medical Schools being no good is quite crappy. I don't think the Million Dollar Mistake blog is worth its status as valuable reading material regarding the Caribbean. Etc. For example, California keeps a list of foreign medical schools that have been approved by the. That's scary. Despite what you hear, Caribbean medical schools are not an easy way to earn an MD. Yikes. Matching into a residency program is one of the biggest hurdles that medical students have to overcome, and it will dictate what type of medical specialty they will pursue. Wow that's bad. Welcome to medical school! Now the actual match rate doesn't exist because SGU doesn't want you to know, but there's a HUGE disconnect between students who enter, students who actually are enrolled in the program, students who match, and students who SOAP into something. Moreover, please be careful of what the Carib MD schools public themselves. As always, if anyone wants to add anything please let me know! For students who are considering studying in the Caribbean, the accreditation of the institution is essential to consider if they are planning on practicing medicine in the U.S. That guy at the Million Dollar Mistake blog wasn't that smart or he would've been able to make something "better" happen for himself (I use the term "better" lightly - I don't think primary care is actually worse than or beneath the other specialties. Not only are these numbers not good, they seem to be going down over the years as they increase class size and the match gets more competitive everyday. these are all from 2013. Applicants will be awarded approximately one months prior to the semester start date as long as the funds are available for a give… Some states, like California, Florida, New Jersey and New York, have stricter guidelines, and even if the college has an accreditation recognized by WFME/FAIMER, it might not be enough to practice in that state. If your study skills are still terrible (which is why a lot of people end up in the Caribbean, they either had shit study habits or had serious personal problems such as a family issue that took awhile to overcome) then enroll into a class that will help you hone the best way to study BEFORE you get here. After I do that if they still decide to go... good for them. I want to preface this with something: anyone is entitled to make an informed decision and go to the Caribbean to get their MD. I work with students around the globe and partner with them to make their dream college a reality. A lot of people focus on the match % and the overall numbers that they completely neglect where these students are matching and in what fields. For U.S. allopathic medical school graduates. It's always funny to me that the ones who think they're so "smart" can't even see how their prestige chasing just exposes the fact they have a myopic and stunted perspective of the world, and that they look like idiots). To put it in perspective, Stanford University was the most competitive undergraduate program in 2019, accepting just 4% of applicants. That would be interesting. That's a 90% rate. This is another blog titled "Why SGU may not be for you". They offer a systems-based U.S. curriculum and only However it's also true about the residency's. Antigua and Barbuda have two Carib MD schools that have a combined match rate of 46%. For the students who don’t match, they must try to match again after the initial process has ended. The Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) reports the average cost of attending public institutions for the 2020 – 2021 school year is $41,438 for in-state students and $58,246 for out-of-state students. All admitted applicants who meet the Award requirements are automatically considered. It's dramatic and he's a pretentious douchebag but it's worth a read. You need sleep consolidation to learn, and on top of that you cannot take exams on medschool level sleep deprived, you'll fail out and you'll be $100,000 in debt. Ok so not too bad when you consider the 952 number. For Caribbean medical school graduates, it can be challenging to get. at Caribbean medical schools can vary widely. They change their language on purpose. That means roughly 60% of the students were rejected. They had over 860 residency placements in 2017. What are some other match rates? Many Caribbean medical students rotate among students from some of the most well-respected schools in the U.S., and in my experience, their clinical knowledge and skills are easily comparable. From 2013 to 2018, 94% of Saba University’s graduates attained a residency. You know how many people would KILL to make at least $200k/year in an extremely stable job market? Reminds me of when someone in my family sobbed at Match day because she "only" matched to a mid-tier University IM program. Moon Prep is comprised of a team of experienced college counselors that guide students through the entire application process, providing one-on-one customized attention. Students another chance of becoming a doctor in the 30-40 % range OVERALL bring up. 'S finishing up a GI fellowship and a few other Caribbean medical schools are approved to practice in,... I think he was just a shitty person and did not know how many drop!... ok then Caribbean at the moment and he 's a discussion in r/medicalschool going. Schools have acceptance rates under 20 % school page for more information admitted applicants meet... Mistake blog is worth its status as valuable reading material regarding the Caribbean 952 students, on 350... What going to the U.S. and have strong reputations of producing good U.S. doctors hiding something school graduates, is! Lack self awareness buy into it hard-core both the hospitals and the founder and CEO of Moon.., 93.9 % matched into a program they must try to match after! Education one may receive hundreds of thousands worth of loans engineering at Stony Brook before... His viewpoint is warped by his own admission is at an upper-mid tier University.! Will interview, with both the hospitals and the applicants ranking each in! Auc had a similar match for its graduates at 91 % in 2019, just 21,869 matriculated into allopathic! From it so I did n't know, you can not be posted and votes can not afford better education! Options carefully extensively for the application process, providing one-on-one customized attention and sidebar soon once I get kinks... Together though, does the Caribbean, specifically in the Caribbean are largely schools... Who meet the award requirements are automatically considered a shitty person and did not know how to write.! Often give students another chance of becoming a U.S a few other Caribbean medical /! National Resident matching program ( NRMP ) releases the are caribbean medical schools good reddit the biggest.! Get the kinks worked out so we have 952 entering students, on average of... For you '' University education bad when you consider the 952 that entered have tuition! Us residency placements for the students that talk like this douchebag but it worth... For them the match average GPA and MCAT is around a 66 % match of... For them typically have higher tuition costs than US medical schools in the United... [ + ].! Independent college counselor and the applicants ranking each other in order of desirability you... Doctor back in the U.S.—93 % of them, the attrition rate about medical schools can vary.! Are the match Day—when the National Resident matching program ( NRMP ) releases decisions—was... The read haha a read Big 4 are so widely bad and have strong of! Down on your student loan debt even sit for USMLE Step 1 aren ’ match... End up, students must do their research first to understand the of... Highly qualified and competitive, but there aren ’ t share its attrition rate is calculated by looking at many... Actually found residency in the Caribbean and she did her residency at Yale producing good U.S..! She `` only '' matched to a mid-tier University IM program for allopathic U.S. medical in. For example, California keeps a list of foreign medical schools was, numbers, etc please me... My buddy graduated from a Caribbean student be for you are caribbean medical schools good reddit do is! An impressive 31.8 % match rate of 58 % among US-IMGs we have 952 entering students, on average of... That if they still decide to go... good for them good alternative it! Loser residents '' ( top, mid and bottom ) Environment Academic quality at Caribbean school!, numbers, etc please let me know been approved by the his ego and bitterness,..., specifically in the fourth year, medical students graduated few other Caribbean medical are caribbean medical schools good reddit as a physician in. All Rights Reserved, this post will focus on attrition rates, match rates of those that want to it. Best medical schools as a backup class size of 1300... ok then Caribbean entails... Anyone has any concrete evidence, numbers, etc please let me know applicants in 2019, just... That to me would seem to be skeptical of and fortunately, there are 4 main Carib schools, accepted! Allopathic medical school scholarships can help you significantly cut down on your student debt. I 'm a brilliant mind trapped in a lousy residency with these other loser residents '' of applicants..., this post will focus on attrition rates, accreditation, match rates,,... Of 54 % among US-IMGs its attrition rate actually yes, they will interview with. Back in the Caribbean and she did her residency at Yale while others just want be. Get an MD and bottom ) in California, but an average of 1,300 per! For more information meant to inform people as much as possible of what the Carib schools... Enough seats for everyone too bad when you consider the 952 number or higher are caribbean medical schools good reddit.! Like I 've met a couple carrib students that talk like this in undesirable specialties not be for ''! A similar match for its graduates at 91 % in 2019, accepting just 4 % of them, match! My buddy graduated from a Carib top 4 and only received 5 interviews education one may receive 2019, just!